The site that Joel is posting about Alcohol http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholAndHealth.html is written and maintained by David J Hanson P.H.d. This site is funded by the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States. The Distilled Spirits Council of the United States is an alcohol lobbying association. I will leave it to all of you make your own decision on David's research.
From my experience, dropping alcohol for 30 days coinciding with the paleo challenge, I felt very good. All weekend I was productive and not focus on sitting in front of the TV while drinking, or sitting in front of the TV nursing a hang over and feeling sorry for myself. I highly recommend it.
Identifying confounders does not make something untrue. You would think a computer programmer would understand basic logic. Go to pubmed, learn how to use it correctly and verify shit for yourself - I seem to be one of the only ones I know who actually fact checks what they read.
ReplyDeleteI'll have a $1500 cert for crossfitters with tons of extra cash to show them how to use public databases. I know at least Hornet will show up. (<3 hornet)
All studies have some confounders.
One of the problems I have with any diet or exercise faddists are their unwillingness to challenge what they are reading and actually do like 10 minutes of work about something that is vitally important to their lives. "Crossfit/Paleo is the best", it said so on the board!
Ok, it's good for some things/people and bad for others. Do some research for your fucking self though, beyond googling "best workouts evar" on the interwebs.
Note you take everything Rob Wolff says as gospel including many assumptions based on speculation and vice versa as well as assumption that all disease is based on inflammation (where's that smarty Dr. to tell you this is, in fact, wrong?) and you also demand negative proof without proving one thing in the first place.
I still didn't see any evidence that no drinks > moderate drinking, so it's still true that
moderate drinking >>> heavy or no drinking
I don't get hangovers or depression issues from 2 drinks. Sorry that you can't stop at 2 drinks. Projecting your issues on everyone and saying it's correct for everyone is bullshit though, it would be like if you were a celiac and said everyone should not eat gluten... oh wait.
Haha, I netted a big one! My google fu is far superior to your google fu. Think about it.
ReplyDeleteU trollin, but it's ok because I like ranting on Fridays.
ReplyDeleteI'm gonna do some cliffs of my above post:
-Doogie is illogical, probably went to college in the south
-Doogie's google fu is poor and doesn't understand databases
-Doogie doesn't like drinking or fun anymore
-Doogie should review http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies before he writes to DT again.
Now you are trolling, and you make such grand sweeping generalizations that you are a viable candidate to replace Glenn Beck.
ReplyDeleteOk, here's a specific question.
ReplyDeleteIs your position non-consumption of alcohol for the average person is superior to moderate consumption?
My position is for everyone to figure it out for themselves.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJoel many of those studies encouraging moderate drinking refer to middle aged to senior people. however there have been several studies that say that moderate drinking among younger people can have a negative effects. to name a few:
ReplyDeletehttp://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/162/5/569
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/1097-0142(19890715)64:2%3C552::AID-CNCR2820640233%3E3.0.CO;2-Y/abstract
There are risks either way, next time you're doing research make sure to pay attention to age groups and if you want there is a "scholar" filter on google. (sorry for being an ass but it seemed to fit the tone of this thread)
that withstanding
paleo life-stye < getting messed up
Several units of measurement were used in the above equation: awesomeness, fun, socializability, and funny storiness
Study 1: <.26-1 drink/day showed benefit over non-drinking.
ReplyDeleteStudy 2: Here's a better and more recent prospective study: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/279/7/535
It doesn't contradict your study though, and definitely shows correlation that is stronger when you get into >>1drink/day. Good point.
However, according to some random website, (http://www.netwellness.org/healthtopics/heart/heartandwomen.cfm) "Cardiovascular disease (CVD) accounts for more deaths than the next seven causes of death in women combined, including all forms of cancer." So should we look more at alcohol's marked benefit in lowering risk of CVD? I don't know, I guess that is probably an individual's decision based on family history, talking with their Dr., etc.
Anyway, congrats you are literally the first person in this "paleo challenge" to start doing actual research on something (AFAIK). I will buy you a beer should our paths ever cross. :)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20485310
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20426890
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20338493
Just in case anyone came back to this post and thought there was a debate, there's not. Moderate alcohol intake's lowering of the risk of CVD is scientific fact.
Anyone who disagrees has literally no idea what they are talking about.
As with all this stuff, there are articles to support these findings and to contradict the findings. Joel, if you think drinking 3 drinks a night is healthy, then go for it. Damon, if you know you feel better not drinking 3 drinks a night, then great. Boom, to each their own. No need for some ultra nerd debate posting links that no one will read.
ReplyDeleteSo take this, http://dafk.net/what/
"As with all this stuff, there are articles to support these findings and to contradict the findings."
ReplyDeleteSorry, but there are not studies contradicting my above links (that I'm aware of, otherwise please post them), that was my whole point. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks or opines, science is science.
If Doogie can't control his drinking and has to abstain, it may be at his health's detriment. Yes to each his own with regard to individual decisions and circumstances (i.e. "feel bad"), but the decision should be made with full information, not some blanket statement "alcohol is bad". Similarly, if I average 4 drinks a night, it's at my health's detriment. (By the way, I average <1 and tend to think that's the sweet spot for me and feeling good.)
It is not impossible to figure this stuff out. It's disheartening to see you say "nobody's going to look into the science" and also recommend and follow a certain diet.
My point wasn't that no one will look into the science, it's just you come off harsh posting your links on this board as in, "Anyone who disagrees has literally no idea what they are talking about." When you say things like that, no one will want to even add in their opinion or have a conversation to what you are trying to prove b/c it's intimidating. I was just trying to make light of the whole situation.
ReplyDeleteI'm not nuanced.
ReplyDeleteIt's sort of a pet peeve of mine when people disregard science as opinion (see also oh so many debates in current society: climate, energy, vaccines, etc.), and I felt that's what you were doing by saying either side could be correct, so I apologize for coming off harsh.